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Rights and Responsibilities

You can't legislate responsibility any more than you can theoretically legistlate morality (although the law often merges with these ideas in common ground). But one thing we have been assured is the existence of our Inalienable Rights. The Right to do and think whatever we please as long as no laws are being broken. Right?

Kinda...you may have the right to do something, but it doesn't mean you necessarily should.

An example is consumption. You have the right to buy whatever you want that is legally for sale. But does this mean a single person should buy and live in a huge McMansion with rooms they will never use? Yes, they have the RIGHT to do so, but it probably is not the best use of their money. You have the right to eat as many cheeseburgers as you can afford...but again, its probably not a good idea.

The above examples are the pursuit of rights overtaking the virtues of prudence and temperance. And if you don't think those matter, the very people who arrived at the idea of our Rights also believed in those. In fact, they come from the very philisophical tradition that gave us the discovery of Rights.

S people, as of late, has forgotten what Rights are FOR, and just sits around being content to do what he pleases, with no regard for Responsibility, which is the wingman of Rights.

A thornier issue is belief. Yes, you can believe whatever you want...but when you use cognitive dissonance, wishful thinking, and poor logic to arrive at a belief, that does a disservice. The idea that we have inalienable Rights was arrived at via the Enlightenment, with drew not only on classical philosophy but also EMPERICSM. In other words, reason and logic. Now, your beliefs don't have to be based entirely on cold hard logic, but they should at least make some sense. And you also have the right to be open to new ideas and challenges to your thinking.

So how does this relate to the circles I run in (or find myself ending up arond)? Look for yourself...the typical consumer is fed propaganda on how much he must buy, and that he has the right to gauge himself by his possessions, job or income. He can believe what he wants, that evolution is false, just because he wants to believe it. The spectre of moral relativism also creeps into the cartoon animal fandom (aka furry) as, most commonly disguising itself as 'lets not judge' or 'we have to be open to all'. Of course, this openness is usually used as an excuse to allow and tolerate not only the natural, healthy diveristy of people (good!) but also the nasty evil and nonsensical annoyances (bad!).

So you have people who come to fandom who are a bit geeky and maybe gay, or simply into wearing animal costumes, and thats fine. Quirky but fine (note: quirky is good). But you also have a sickening tolerance for things like zoophilia, and people with poor hygine and laziness. Care to comment on someone's lack of manners? perhaps that they need a bath? or that they shouldnt screw the family dog? No, that would be judging. Tell someone they are disrespectful to people? Nevar! Don't fursecute my psychological disorder of the week! (ie ADHD, aspergers, etc).

But that is GOOD. Moral relativism and 'being open to all' are usually are screamed by people who want to have an excuse for their unethical activities. When evidecne goes against them, they pretend truth can be whatever they wish it. The corner they paint themselves into is their universe, and theirs alone.

We have the RIGHT to judge, and in fact a moral obligation to JUDGE. Just because you are open does not mean you don't have standards. Cartoon animal fandom is just a fandom for people who like anthro animals. Plain and simple. Fetishes and otherkin are a distraction at best, but immoral activities and irresponsibility are the things that spawn CSI episodes, if not arrest and scorn. Such things are best kept on the side or even closeted within a fandom that they have no relevance towards, or preferably stopped if they be immoral.

In other words, be a little Responsible and use your Rights for something other than your own desires; after all, it's your Right. ;)

Comments

( 92 comments — Leave a comment )
sekhmetsat
Aug. 14th, 2006 08:29 am (UTC)
this lack of Responsibility is found also in paganism, as well as greater sf fandom... it is why i have left BOTH those groups in RL and stick mostly to internet, where i can block the crazies, or just avoid them entirely.
drewkitty
Aug. 14th, 2006 09:26 am (UTC)
I suggest that you look up in the dictionary what "responsible" actually means.

You'll be surprised . . .
brown_wolf
Aug. 14th, 2006 02:57 pm (UTC)
I seriously wonder how the ecomony will run once Baby Boomers retire and try to sell their $800,000 houses to people who can't afford it.

But yeah, I just simply don't talk to people who are into pedo-beastiality.
(Anonymous)
Aug. 14th, 2006 08:39 pm (UTC)
An example is consumption. You have the right to buy whatever you want that is legally for sale. But does this mean a single person should buy and live in a huge McMansion with rooms they will never use?

Well, people also have the right to do dumb things. I could only justify buying a large place while single and unattached if it (1) was a real bargain or (2) I was anticipating marrying and raising a family (where we'd need the space).

However, a 3000 sq ft two-bedroom (with ten-foot-deep backyard) is just insane. Those McMansions are built using PARTICLE BOARD WITH STYROFOAM TRIM, and as far as I can tell are never meant to be lived in. They're bought by "investors" before construction and sold to other "investors", who sell them to other "investors"... (Just like dot-com IPO stocks at Y2K, Magic: the Gathering cards in the 90s, and B&W small-press comics in the 80s.) While ferrying IronBadger up to Lake County a couple weeks ago, I saw whole developments of McMansions sitting empty in the middle of nowhere along 101 and I-5, 50-60 miles away from the nearest sizable settlement.

As a SoCal property owner myself, I've been keeping an eye on the current real estate bubblemania. I'm telling everybody to wait for the big crash; it's coming. And when it does, say goodbye to million-dollar crackhouses. (In the last crash, prices dropped by 2/3 within one to two years.)
ihuitl
Aug. 14th, 2006 08:54 pm (UTC)
I am sick of overinflated prices and acres of cookie cutter houses with draconian homeowner laws. I eagerly await a 66% plummet, and perhaps even a crash on sales and construction. Maybe even empty tracts being demolished by the acres. Ah, that would be something to buy champaigne for!
steele_the_wolf
Aug. 16th, 2006 02:56 am (UTC)
So you are saying...

Because people have a different opinion from you, that means that they are automatically guilty of moral relativism?

I also noticed how you associate unfavorable characteristics with groups of people as if they are the same thing. How about we find the actual harm of these groups (therein, zoophiles, vampires, otherkin, vegans and people with ADHD and aspergers) instead of just claiming them to be a problem?

That’s two major fundamentally flawed arguments. It wouldn’t irk me so much if you were not capable of making such intellectual arguments. It makes you look like you are more interested in other priorities then the truth when you can have such sophisticated arguments based on such flawed principles.

You don’t have to step on other groups to encourage better values and character within the community.

-Steele
ihuitl
Aug. 16th, 2006 05:02 am (UTC)
Allow me to clarify...
The issue comes when those groups DO lack character and values and DO inflict actual harm, and hence bring those who are associated with them down, or even make others OK with such harm. Then they DO become a problem. And it is often those same groups who resort to moral relativism, or exaggerated psychological problems to justify their actions.

The list of groups you brought up, for example, includes both the healthy diversity I said was good, and the harm that was bad. It also includes relativists and absolutists (vegans, for example, tend to believe that their vegnaism is an absolute good, and not relative).

Nor do I imply that anyone who disagrees with me in relativistic; after all, vegans and I disagree, but I would not accuse them of resorting to relativism in their disagreement with me.

Otherkin, vampires and such are not amongst the harmful groups per se, although I simply point them out as those who use their right to believe anything they want as an excuse to justify it in suspect ways. The only 'harm' they do is epistemological: they encourage 'truthiness' through their arguments based on relativism, mere feeling and emotions, and dreams which are subject to wide interpretation and not to be taken literally.
Re: Allow me to clarify... - steele_the_wolf - Aug. 17th, 2006 09:41 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Allow me to clarify... - ihuitl - Aug. 17th, 2006 11:51 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Allow me to clarify... - steele_the_wolf - Aug. 18th, 2006 12:57 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Allow me to clarify... - ihuitl - Aug. 18th, 2006 01:17 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Allow me to clarify... - steele_the_wolf - Aug. 18th, 2006 02:24 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Allow me to clarify... - ihuitl - Aug. 18th, 2006 10:00 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Allow me to clarify... - steele_the_wolf - Aug. 18th, 2006 08:35 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Allow me to clarify... - ihuitl - Aug. 18th, 2006 08:54 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Allow me to clarify... - steele_the_wolf - Sep. 6th, 2006 02:22 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Allow me to clarify... - ihuitl - Sep. 6th, 2006 11:17 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Allow me to clarify... - steele_the_wolf - Sep. 23rd, 2006 07:56 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Allow me to clarify... - ihuitl - Sep. 24th, 2006 02:37 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Allow me to clarify... - ssss_imo - Sep. 13th, 2006 06:28 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Allow me to clarify... - ihuitl - Sep. 14th, 2006 12:38 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Allow me to clarify... - ssss_imo - Sep. 14th, 2006 04:55 am (UTC) - Expand
Mr. Pot, May I Introduce You to Mr. Kettle - ssss_imo - Sep. 13th, 2006 04:26 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Mr. Pot, May I Introduce You to Mr. Kettle - ihuitl - Sep. 13th, 2006 10:50 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Mr. Pot, May I Introduce You to Mr. Kettle - ihuitl - Sep. 14th, 2006 10:09 am (UTC) - Expand
What to Do, Pt. I - ssss_imo - Sep. 14th, 2006 03:32 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: What to Do, Pt. II - ssss_imo - Sep. 14th, 2006 03:37 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: What to Do, Pt. II - ihuitl - Sep. 14th, 2006 11:20 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: What to Do, Pt. II - ssss_imo - Sep. 15th, 2006 03:29 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: What to Do, Pt. II - ihuitl - Sep. 15th, 2006 09:58 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: What to Do, Pt. II - ssss_imo - Sep. 15th, 2006 11:02 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: What to Do, Pt. II - ihuitl - Sep. 18th, 2006 01:53 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: What to Do, Pt. I - ihuitl - Sep. 14th, 2006 11:27 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: What to Do, Pt. I - ssss_imo - Sep. 15th, 2006 03:35 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: What to Do, Pt. I - the_brad - Sep. 23rd, 2006 07:55 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: What to Do, Pt. I - ssss_imo - Sep. 23rd, 2006 08:55 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: What to Do, Pt. I - the_brad - Sep. 25th, 2006 01:21 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: What to Do, Pt. I - ssss_imo - Sep. 25th, 2006 02:43 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: What to Do, Pt. I - the_brad - Sep. 25th, 2006 04:30 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: What to Do, Pt. I - ssss_imo - Sep. 25th, 2006 06:40 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: What to Do, Pt. I - the_brad - Sep. 25th, 2006 08:17 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: What to Do, Pt. I - ssss_imo - Sep. 25th, 2006 10:58 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: What to Do, Pt. I - ihuitl - Sep. 26th, 2006 12:01 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: What to Do, Pt. I - the_brad - Sep. 26th, 2006 12:26 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: What to Do, Pt. I - ihuitl - Sep. 26th, 2006 12:34 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: What to Do, Pt. I - ihuitl - Sep. 26th, 2006 12:41 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: What to Do, Pt. I - the_brad - Sep. 27th, 2006 05:42 pm (UTC) - Expand
Also; EDIT - the_brad - Sep. 25th, 2006 06:04 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Allow me to clarify... - wolfjlupus - Aug. 17th, 2006 10:02 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Allow me to clarify... - ihuitl - Aug. 18th, 2006 12:02 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Allow me to clarify... - wolfjlupus - Aug. 18th, 2006 01:04 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Allow me to clarify... - ihuitl - Aug. 18th, 2006 01:25 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Allow me to clarify... - wolfjlupus - Aug. 18th, 2006 01:51 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Allow me to clarify... - ihuitl - Aug. 18th, 2006 10:06 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Allow me to clarify... - the_brad - Aug. 18th, 2006 12:29 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Allow me to clarify... - ihuitl - Aug. 18th, 2006 02:00 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Allow me to clarify... - the_brad - Aug. 18th, 2006 02:23 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Allow me to clarify... - wolfjlupus - Aug. 18th, 2006 05:49 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Allow me to clarify... - ihuitl - Aug. 18th, 2006 07:43 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Allow me to clarify... - the_brad - Aug. 18th, 2006 12:34 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Allow me to clarify... - ihuitl - Aug. 18th, 2006 02:03 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Allow me to clarify... - the_brad - Aug. 18th, 2006 02:22 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Allow me to clarify... - wolfjlupus - Aug. 18th, 2006 04:26 pm (UTC) - Expand
the_brad
Aug. 17th, 2006 06:23 pm (UTC)
While I don't believe in any sort of natural rights, I do agree that we have a moral obligation to judge, in the way you refer.
steele_the_wolf
Aug. 17th, 2006 09:50 pm (UTC)
You don't believe in natural rights, yet you believe in some form of judgement. Now how is that suppose to work?
(no subject) - the_brad - Aug. 18th, 2006 12:32 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - steele_the_wolf - Aug. 18th, 2006 01:03 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - the_brad - Aug. 18th, 2006 02:55 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - steele_the_wolf - Aug. 18th, 2006 03:43 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - the_brad - Aug. 18th, 2006 04:16 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - steele_the_wolf - Aug. 18th, 2006 05:50 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - the_brad - Aug. 18th, 2006 12:36 pm (UTC) - Expand
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - ihuitl - Aug. 18th, 2006 01:59 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - the_brad - Aug. 18th, 2006 02:33 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - steele_the_wolf - Aug. 18th, 2006 05:48 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - the_brad - Aug. 18th, 2006 06:01 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - steele_the_wolf - Aug. 18th, 2006 05:58 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - the_brad - Aug. 18th, 2006 06:09 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - steele_the_wolf - Aug. 18th, 2006 11:17 pm (UTC) - Expand
ihuitl
Aug. 17th, 2006 11:40 pm (UTC)
The issue of whether or not rights are natural/self evident/inalienable, and their origins, are the subject of a totally different conversation.
(no subject) - the_brad - Aug. 18th, 2006 12:37 pm (UTC) - Expand
(Deleted comment)
wolfjlupus
Aug. 18th, 2006 04:54 am (UTC)
Suck'n each other cocks, nice... (very troll like method)

Shit articulated is still shit and such is your foundations (as explained elsewhere)...
ihuitl
Aug. 18th, 2006 10:07 am (UTC)
Others are allowed to agree, as much as you can disagree. I didnt set out to bait YOU personally in this discussion; or anyone. I wanted to start discussion (good discussion, it was hoped).
the_brad
Aug. 18th, 2006 12:39 pm (UTC)
Well this is a familiar tactic.
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - wolfjlupus - Aug. 18th, 2006 04:32 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - the_brad - Aug. 18th, 2006 04:46 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - wolfjlupus - Aug. 18th, 2006 05:02 pm (UTC) - Expand
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - wolfjlupus - Aug. 18th, 2006 05:04 pm (UTC) - Expand
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - wolfjlupus - Aug. 18th, 2006 05:32 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - the_brad - Aug. 18th, 2006 05:48 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ihuitl - Aug. 18th, 2006 07:49 pm (UTC) - Expand
( 92 comments — Leave a comment )

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ihuitl
Ihuitl the philosoraptor boy scout
Eye of the Bennu, the movie!

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